Men aren’t talking about this because a lot of them are DOING it, or at least know they would if they had the chance. The fact that this case exposed a large number of men (how often are 50 people on trial at the same time for the same offence?) from a relatively small area means your neighbour, your husband, your brother, the man in the corner shop, the delivery driver, your children’s teacher - most of them are doing it, or wish they were
The multiple rapes by Dominique Pélicot and the men in his village are vile and sickening. I hope I’m on the same side as Caroline Criado Perez and Germaine Greer et al in this moral dilemma.
It’d be easy to come to the comments here and agree with Caroline Criado Perez and with Greer’s line from The Female Eunuch that ‘Women have very little idea of how much men hate them’.
If I were talking to men about this – which I will try to do – that is the line I’d take. But I’m not, so I’ll say something different, which may annoy some of the readers here, GFPs, I think they are called.
#notallmen
There, I said it.
It’s easy, with the relentless reports about women getting brutalised everywhen and everywhere to believe that no man can be trusted. In the last few years, I’ve noticed: a rise in reports about rape as a weapon of war (with new emphasis on the Soviet soldiers in Germany at the end of WW2); the horrendous treatment by the Taliban of women in Afghanistan; the mass sexual assaults on New Year's Eve 2015-2016 in Cologne; the mind-boggling savagery of the rape and murder of Jyoti Singh in Delhi in 2012; and on and on.
It's almost become a genre of porn.
What it leads to is an impression that there are hardly any happy marriages left, hardly any women who have not suffered sexual assault, hardly any man who is not a predator and potential rapist.
Caroline Criado Perez does acknowledge that ‘most of the time I navigate the world feeling pretty secure that most of the male half of humanity does not actively despise me simply because I’m female. … These men who hate us, they are surely in a minority’.
But the Dominique Pélicot story has shaken the little faith she had because the men involved seemed so normal to those around them and because there were so many of them.
I don’t know how many men are normal or what normal men are like. I wish I did. We all have our dark sides as well as our light sides.
In an attempt to draw this away from the men vs women problem, the comparison I would like to offer is with Nazi Germany – I assure readers that it’s pure coincidence that Germany pops up again in my illustrations – and Adolf Eichman.
Adolf Eichman seemed so normal that Hannah Arendt coined the phrase, ‘the banality of evil’, in her report on his trial, and there were undoubtedly many in Nazi Germany like him. But neither of these facts means that all Germans in the country were capable of exterminating Jews. Or so it seems to me.
What do you think?
Is every man a predator and potential rapist?
Was every German under the Nazis capable of exterminating Jews?
Is every human being intent on destroying the environment that supports life on Earth?
Does anyone have any reliable data on any of these questions?
I’ve seen enough cases where people, given pretty much the same information can come to very different conclusions; and to realise that the thinking process is not only the external / objective world but heavily dependent on the inner, subjective world.
It is possible to extend the possible answers:
1. All men
2. A minority of men
3. Too many men
4. Impossible to say if it’s a majority of men or a minority of men.
5. It is possible to go some way to working out if it is a majority or a minority of men.
It is fair enough to have different view points as that is how ideas can be considered.
Women need to look into this for their own protection but from my perspective the important thing is that men look into this and not side-step the basic question by continually widening the frame of reference until everything becomes vague.
Vague and nebulous is not helpful here, the basic and pointed question is good enough (How Many men?) and it would be more useful for men and women to try and work out ways to get some sort of answer for several reasons, including:
• For women it is ultimately a life and death issue (physically)
• For men it is ultimately a life and death issue (physically and philosophically)
• If men and women are to coexist this cannot continue but change depends on looking into it
• If this continues we undermine our own society
I say keep the focus sharp and narrow; examine what is going on right now, don’t widen the frame to include the last 100 years.
Men and women need to really know: What the actual hell is going on with men?
I was told that one of the main porn sites suddenly removed all content that included the tag ‘sleeping’ – so rape and abuse as a business model?
It is not a complicated question but granted getting an answer will need work.
Perhaps a good place to start is looking at who profits from encouraging base animal passions and why are they allowed to continue?
What is important is that this ugly can of worms is spread out on the table and examined closely to try and repair the damage if it is possible. The problem appears wide. For example and as said earlier: Do not ask what is wrong with drag queen story hour; instead, ask why do men wearing caricature woman face want an audience of toddlers?
"Have you never wondered why it is we are not just in armed combat against you? It is not because there is a shortage of kitchen knives in this country. It is because we believe in your humanity, against all the evidence." - Andrea Dworkin, 1980, "I Want A 24 Hour Truce In Which There Is No Rape"
To Men: If women’s anger keeps building (as it rightly should) men had better wake up soon because the next station for this train is Rage Central and you don’t want to see the station after that… but then again, you won’t need to be worrying about mosquitoes on your testicles (if you still have any).
This is important that these ideas are being exposed. I would never in a million years ever participate in this type of gang rape. It is very odd that this idea should ever be presented but it is eye opening that it has. I had a niece who was gang raped and a very close female friend whom I had a lot of intimate conversations with who had experienced abuse. I will never have ever done this even without having these experiences. I don't want any acknowledgement for having said this as it should, but it doesn't, go without saying. Men need a wake up call. This is a huge topic as it has so many layers and ramifications. One of my friends who is a mother and grandmother teaches all of the male members of her family how to treat girls and women, how to date them, and how to show appreciation for them. I listened to what she had to say and I thought, wow, I wish that I grew up with that information. Men and boys are dumb in a lot of respects and need direction. This does not excuse in any way the abominable way that they act because there is no excuse for it.
From time to time, I have heard the basic line, "About 2 out of every 4 women have been sexually assaulted in their lifetime."
From my own experience with men and watching true crime through the years, I just sense those stats are wrong & underestimate of reality.
Some years back, there was a dark commercial showing women with bruises, looking worn, tired laying on top of old police case files and the commercial said, "There is a serious backlog of cold case rapes that need to get solved. When will that happen?"
I personally don't see many women getting up the courage (or whatever it is that's stopping us) from coming forward and really getting angry, showing up and organizing against the growing problem of misogyny in our society.
I feel like I am alone.
I have to share this recent experience: I make jewelry. I Google ppl that sell the gemstones & findings I need for my hobby. I Googled this subject some few weeks ago and up pops a seller on Etsy.
This seller shows a cheap coffee mug with the misogynistic demeaning message on it, "I'll stop being a cunt once I get my coffee."
Come to find out that Etsy has many other sellers promoting hatred towards females using the "C" word on all kinds of cheap crap from China.
I went on to Etsy, typed "Cunt" into their browser and more sellers and the "c" word products came up. I followed ETSY'S protocol to "report this seller" for breaking their own rules, ETSY's own rules of selling products of "hatred or violence or pornography."
Not one Etsy rep responded! I contacted and complained to Better Business Bureau.
It took a few weeks and the Etsy agent who responded was indifferent to my disgust and basically told me to do what I already did repeatedly. It's as though they never even read my complaint & all the actions I took.
All I requested Etsy owners do is follow their own policies and stop these sellers from profiting off of hatred towards females.
Misogyny is growing because of having one political party in US lead by a rapist, a woman-hater. The men who hate us are coming out from under the rocks.
Like any other minority who has faced hatred from (mostly) white men, women are now the target of their open anger and hatred.
When I read the NYT story I instantly thought of this piece written over 20 years ago by the late radical feminist Andrea Dworkin. She was and is a very controversial figure in Feminism, and I don't know enough of her writing to have a solid opinion about her.
Her story here of being drugged and raped wasn't considered credible by many at the time. It was so... far-fetched. I don't know how it stands currently. When I read it a few months back I thought it sounded very plausible that such a thing could happen.
Technology has come a long since 1999. Yet even then how many instances had we already seen of partners releasing sex videos without consent? Tanya Harding comes to mind.
From what we know happens with child pornography and having seen some chilling Dark Web videos of women being brutalized, I don't find this story far-fetched at all. And for someone who would do such a thing, why not target a radical feminist, notorious for her absolute rejection of pornography and sex work?
It's also possible that the perpetrator wasn't aware of her history. Or that it actually didn't happen. Being plausible doesn't make it true. And we've seen writers who passed off made up stories as actual events.
Yet, I'm sorry to say that I can easily imagine a video depicting the rape of an unconscious radical feminist in a Paris hotel floating around on the Dark Web. Or in the personal collection of a serial rapist or an incel.
Dworkin was one of the leading voices of radical feminism before men successfully derailed the Second Wave. Her widower, John Stoltenberg, wrote "Refusing to Be a Man."
"Have you never wondered why it is we are not just in armed combat against you? It is not because there is a shortage of kitchen knives in this country. It is because we believe in your humanity, against all the evidence." - Andrea Dworkin, 1980, "I Want A 24 Hour Truce In Which There Is No Rape"
I can barely take my hand off my mouth to breathe to type to make a sound — all too familiar to be arrested, hijacked — horrific anger explodes each time I hear/read these stories that I went numb to due to my own hospital birth rape by the fuckernutzs in white coats — who take an oath — who promise to do no harm — are they asleep, is it not all men? After reading this I see more truth and it makes me so sick. Since my own tragic hospital rape it felt like an IV drip poured over me day and night to not speak it, sound it, claim it — yet I too have a sonogram of my babies in utero - just fine — they were perfect. But i was too shocked into survival mode to file a suit. That is what trauma does it arrests our voice, our body, our life until we can't hold it in any longer. Thank you for being a clear and sound voice for all of us. I'm fairly new here and know Wendy and Ros, this is a good place to hang out. Thank you, I apprecaite what you are writing more than you can know.
Hello Michele, Thank you for saying that. "I'm sorry that happened to you, goes a long way" Thank you again. Me too. Another area that still needs to be aired as I know I am one of many. Thank you.
This is interesting to me. I was away and didn't see this story til a couple of days ago. I've not seen anyone tallying about it, only news. It is horrific. I feel I don't want to talk about it because to do so is to lean into imagining how it all must feel and that is unbearable. But I do not share the revelation described in the article. I know so many women who were abused by family members as children, raped, dv, so it was no surprise to me. Perps are regularly described as such nice guys, what a shock. I was well aware these men are everywhere.
I think the call out to men is complicated. Violent and abusive men are a threat to men too. My husband spoke out a lot then one day the dead women list suddenly made him the target of tans rights activists and he was cancelled so has no platform anymore from which to speak. We live like hermits in our bubble. We both spoke out directly to a family now-ex who turned out to be abusive. But I don't think these men engaged in the stuff like in this case are visible to men like my husband, I think they must only disclose to other men who hate women and see us as not human. A split male culture - men who would and men who wouldn't. And I dunno that the wouldn'ts are a majority...
I remember explaining to my very sweet, woke, but large and hairy nephew, the meaning of "all men are potential rapists". The look on his face when the penny dropped! I hope that means he will now always make a point of crossing over the road to avoid walking behind a woman, and generally be more alert.
I also do not like the idea that men somehow can't help themselves - that it is biology etc - as if they are somehow lacking in any capacity. If this is the case - then seriously no male should be left in charge of anything - as they clearly are just one great big hormonal instinctive creatures.#
Why men say nothing - well remember we have be taught that male violence is a women's issue - no it is a male issue - it is criminal. I do hope all the identified men are jailed.
It is the worst thing - it seems not matter what other identity you have - race, sexuality, disability, faith etc - if you have a vagina - then you are a target in some shape or another. I think this is why misogyny sexism is so pervasive in that it affects every identifiable vagina on the planet.
Resources need to go to educating young men and boys from early days - so women are not having to be responsible grown ups - changing their behaviour - explaining everything - being "understanding" so not to upset all the "good men" out there - and to stop referring to ignorant sexist as "characters" or mavericks. why - I noticed with Huw Edwards debacle - that complaints were not taken seriously at the time when adult women were raising issues. I heard on the Newsagents Jon Sopel say when a female BBC presenter - went public before he was allowed to slip away - that she should have had a quiet word. That made me furious - gaslighting, lets hide this toxic abuse - no.
This story is horrific in that I am not surprised that it did happen.
I really dont know how to change things - I wish -
In the years I have been on this planet and the little reading and seeing that I have done, there has been a noticeable pattern; that women and children seem to get abused as a matter of course and that this seems to have increasingly permeated throughout society from top to bottom.
From the enablers, accomplices, clients and fellow abusers at the so-called top end of society, moving amongst the likes of Savile and Epstein, all the way down to institutions like the police that seem to be home for rapists and other miscreants to the point where a woman (Kellie Jay Keene?) had police knocking on her door to complain that she had used words that denigrated paedophiles… and that is before we even get to ‘the ordinary man in the street’.
Now, I don’t know many people, but the incidence of family sexual abuse and rape by fathers against daughters seems high for the number of folks I know; very disturbingly high in fact.
Can it be that most men, given the chance to rape and pillage would jump at the chance? I do not know but suspect it might be so.
Recently I came across a Sufi mystic writing on the nature of humanity:
“As man begins to see clearly through human life, the world begins to appear as a forest to him, filled with wild animals, fighting, killing and preying upon one another.
“There are four different classes of men who harmonize with each other in accordance with their different states of evolution: angelic, human, animal, and devilish.
“The angelic seeks for heaven, and the human being struggles along in the world; the man with animal propensities revels in his earthly pleasures, while the devilish man is engaged in creating mischief, thereby making a hell for himself and for others. Man after his human evolution becomes angelic, and through his development in animality arrives at the stage of devil.”
For argument’s sake I put some numbers to this idea; lets be kind and say that 1% of men might fall into the angelic human category, 29% struggle along as humans, 50% are basically slaves to their animal passions and 20% are those who embrace their darker side and behave accordingly.
So for example, in any given 100 men we have the following:
• 1 man who would never deliberately abuse
• 29 men who are usually okay but may fall prey to animal passions
• 50 men who, engaged with porn and would fuck a watermelon if they could manage it
• 20 men who would abuse anyone or anything to get what they want.
We have a society (UK) that seems to elevate the sociopathic and psychopathic – the power hungry, greedy, selfish ‘go-getters’ who are the alpha males, but the origin of this problem goes way, way back.
Men have managed to scapegoat women through religion. They have turned projecting the shadow (Jung) into an art form. The misogynists who co-opted and took over managed to blame women for everything (The Fall), and thus were able to justify their passion for abuse through a DARVO lense (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender).
And of course the ‘men of the cloth’ took to all this in all humble piety, whilst being abetted by the handmaiden nuns (e.g. Nuns running orphanages in Ireland).
Is it the fault of religion? No. Humans seem very adept at twisting things and contorting them to justify desires and, given time it seems to extend across everything.
Recent years have seen attacks on women that defy belief and it seems to me like a bunch of very wealthy abusers have been funding an attempt to erase women.
Why aren’t men talking about this? I can think of a number of possible reasons including but not limited to:
• 1 man who is shocked beyond words
• 29 men who feel ashamed and embarrassed
• 50 men who unconsciously recognise their potential shadow, but don’t think about it because the sport is on and they are looking for a watermelon
• 20 men who are checking to make sure they don’t get caught but with every intent to continue
So, where does that leave us? Potentially in a very ugly place.
Women are going to have to do this for themselves because unless something changes, it seems like men are too degraded to stand up. The archetypes of Minerva, Guan Yin, Durga etc etc can be called upon for strength, but waking up enough men to help may or may not be possible short term; perhaps the sight of officially sanctioned male on female abuse at the last Olympics could have been utilized as it indicates the extent of the rot, but it was fascinating to see how they forced deletion of video showing that. In other parts of the world it seems men project their shadow through a level of control freakery rather than addressing their own dark side… just blame the women, control their behaviour and all sorted s/
Also, there is no quick fix, education and institutions have been weaponised against women (e.g. menstruators), and that is without thinking of the ideas of invisible women. Even if the indoctrination and sexualisation of the young was stopped tomorrow, repairing the damage done could take a couple of generations. Do not ask what’s wrong with drag queen story hour, ask why do men wearing caricature woman-face want an audience of toddlers?
The French rape case is displaying the disgusting underbelly of our society, but what about those at the top end, how well they protect their own… why did we not hear more about those associated with Epstein and Savile but are, instead, served up the abomination from France.
Of course there are the Ghislaine Maxwells of the world, but for men who come out with the stale bullshit of ‘not all men’, this male suggests, rather than trying to protect one’s ego: “When you hear or see of people of poor character, look inside and examine yourself [to paraphrase Confucius].
Men need to wake-up, lest women are left with nothing but Artemisia Gentileschi’s Jael and Sisera; which of course the abusers would love because then of course they would have no choice but to punish such brutal behaviour.
Can’t remember exact quote now, but:
“It is only when a mosquito lands on a man’s testicles that he learns to curb his innate tendency to violence”
Thanks for your opinion and you make some valid points. I can't in all honesty say that things are as bleak as you are making them. Men have emotional lives as well and maybe rather than focus on sex, focus on love and relationships. What is also missed is what men do for a living, are they involved in working with women on a regular basis and are they engaged in work where they nurture and support women. Their work can lead to a better understanding and more compassion and caring as they see the rewards in being patient, being understanding, and being kind as part of their work environment. Love is a verb and working on expressing it can create the opportunity for emotional growth and this is what we are trying to achieve. Right thinking can be practiced but I believe that men's listening skills need to be refined. They need to realize that however insightful they think they are, they are not as insightful as a woman. I believe that a man's love is very directional and powerful. It needs to be because that is how men are built and I sense that in myself when I fall in love. Men who risk their lives to save loved ones and to save communities and others utilize this strength. However, because they are built this way, they are not nearly as good at relationships and inter-relationships as women. This is where they fall down in terms of listening and understanding because they need to be taught to recognize their limitations, engage in dialogue, and let women teach them. So many men are stuck in their own world and will reject this step. The linear approach to life allows for quick decisions but not necessarily correct and longterm ones. Men need to work on expressing the aspects of love (patience, kindness, support, and compassion) and they will see the rewards in doing so. This idea is not being taught so men are directionless.
I agree. Men like to see themselves as protectors and providers but they don't seem to realize that women need protection against mostly men. Even men need protection from men ffs. Men get angry at WOMEN for stating the obvious - that we cannot trust men because we don't know which men are predators - instead of getting angry at the MEN who give all men a bad name. It's crazy-making because women just want to be free to raise their children, earn a decent living and support their community.
Porn culture has so distorted young women's perspective of their role in society that they now self-objectify and groom themselves as victims saving predators the trouble. The erasure of women is well underway but I sense that Mother Nature will have the last word. Men will profoundly regret the imposition of patriarchy on our species because it inverts the natural order. Women and children are the centre of any healthy culture. Men reap the rewards in this culture by being loved and respected for honouring and protecting women's life-giving ability to bear and nurture the next generation.
Instead, male humans have devolved and are bringing everyone down with them. Sadly, women's connection with each other has been so damaged and their spirit so demoralized that they now think mutilation of children's bodies in order to 'change sex', as if that's possible, is seen as laudable. It sickens me that mothers have been indoctrinated to such a degree that they go along with this. Such is the result of trauma inflicted on women today.
It confuses me you went from the subject of rape to "sex changes".
One is not the other.
BTW: Please cite one parent, one actual case I can Google, investigate your claim of who forced their child into this "sex change" you refer to because it doesn't happen!
Simply by virtue of a child being incapable of comprehending the lifelong, dire implications of sex reassignment, the child cannot consent. Therefore the child is technically being coerced by the parent, doctors, school system. I could give you thousands of examples of detransitioners who felt pressured, pushed, deceived or otherwise compelled into thinking a sex change would fix their underlying mental health issue. There is an agenda being promoted that is driven by massive profit telling our children that changing sex is possible. It is not.
Changing a child's healthy male or female body to SIMULATE the opposite sex is diabolical. Sadly, the many stories of irreversible damage are laid out in a book by that name. I suggest you read it before you reply. It will break your heart. BTW, I have NO issue with adults going through the procedure, as long as they have been fully informed.
I just read up on this and also watched a commercial on FSTV from the transsexual community. They are saying this complaint you make is "a thing," when it isn't. It isn't happening and there are a number of "feminist" woman claiming what you are claiming--that children are forced into changing sex against their will.
That's NOT HAPPENING.
That is a rumor.
No child is going to go through any kind of sex change against their will. No doctor would touch any child that doesn't truly feel this is what they want or need.
You may be innocently believing in this lie. I read that it is dangerous to go around and spread nonsense as it helps to normalize even more prejudice and hatred towards an already vulnerable group.
Transsexuals persons are killed at a much higher rate than any other minority.
You are not helping to stop the increased violence these poor families face having children who IS not feeling normal with their gender.
And it also has nothing to do with the subject of rape.
You connected the two issues as though they are both dangerous and THAT IS DANGEROUS.
A transsexual child won't go through ANY sex change until they are age appropriate and both parents and doctors are allowed willingly by the patient.
As for the murder rate, actually trans people are murdered at LESS than the rate of the general population. It's important to note that those who ARE murdered typically work in the sex industry. Here's the article from an independent study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5551594/
Results. The overall homicide rate of transgender individuals was likely to be less than that of cisgender individuals, with 8 of 12 RR estimates below 1.0. However, the homicide rates of young transfeminine Black and Latina residents were almost certainly higher than were those of cisfeminine comparators, with all RR estimates above 1.0 for Blacks and all above 1.0 for Latinas.
"Prey," is indeed THE word to use. It doesn't help womenkind to know other women working in pornography promoting rape, is helping our sex, either. And there's plenty of rape porno in the world. Watching that alone, it's easy for any male to then assume, "Secretly, THIS is what women really want."
I personally have trouble trusting any man because of my own experiences.
For women to RISE UP and say ENOUGH!!! Enough brutalizing of women and children. Enough gaslighting. Enough shaming and blaming women for men's despicable behaviour.
I recently got together with 2 girlfriends and the boyfriend about starting up weekend healing retreats. Initially, I wanted to hold a retreat for women only, then mixed and men's retreats. Within minutes this man in his 40's started to lecture me about why I should not have a women's only healing retreat. He kept insisting I be more 'inclusive' and that 'empowering women to find their voice' would likely make them become power hungry. I tried to explain that for my first one I felt it was best to focus on women as I can relate better to them and wanted my first experience to be minimal stress.
Anyway, his girlfriend waffled (I think he's abusing her) and couldn't allow herself to agree with me, the second woman initially agreed with him but gradually found her voice. While he petulantly stormed off because he refused to see my point of view, I said to these two women, I guess I would have to do this on my own.
It was surreal to watch as I was hoping to mentor both these women and provide an income which they both desperately need. I called him out on his patronizing behaviour but he continued to dig in his heels. So, I wrapped up the meeting and left.
Then he had the audacity to continue lecturing me by text shortly after. I declined to engage.
Here's the kicker...I had just purchased a small canvas artwork from his girlfriend for $250 to help her financially.
It was a lesson well learned. Do NOT give any man an inch. He will take a mile every time. Disappointed in women, too. The handmaiden indoctrination is holding us back.
Thank you so much for writing this. I agree with every word. I am horrified by what happened and also by the thought that it could be happening in every town everywhere. I also can't stop thinking that there are men reading about this case and only thinking about how they can cover their tracks better and make sure they are not caught like this man was.
And yes, what about the men who walked out, have seen differing stories - 3 total or 3 out of 10, ie 30! They weren't willing to rape her, but also weren't willing to go to the police! Or to tell anyone else who could stop it.
Men aren’t talking about this because a lot of them are DOING it, or at least know they would if they had the chance. The fact that this case exposed a large number of men (how often are 50 people on trial at the same time for the same offence?) from a relatively small area means your neighbour, your husband, your brother, the man in the corner shop, the delivery driver, your children’s teacher - most of them are doing it, or wish they were
The multiple rapes by Dominique Pélicot and the men in his village are vile and sickening. I hope I’m on the same side as Caroline Criado Perez and Germaine Greer et al in this moral dilemma.
It’d be easy to come to the comments here and agree with Caroline Criado Perez and with Greer’s line from The Female Eunuch that ‘Women have very little idea of how much men hate them’.
If I were talking to men about this – which I will try to do – that is the line I’d take. But I’m not, so I’ll say something different, which may annoy some of the readers here, GFPs, I think they are called.
#notallmen
There, I said it.
It’s easy, with the relentless reports about women getting brutalised everywhen and everywhere to believe that no man can be trusted. In the last few years, I’ve noticed: a rise in reports about rape as a weapon of war (with new emphasis on the Soviet soldiers in Germany at the end of WW2); the horrendous treatment by the Taliban of women in Afghanistan; the mass sexual assaults on New Year's Eve 2015-2016 in Cologne; the mind-boggling savagery of the rape and murder of Jyoti Singh in Delhi in 2012; and on and on.
It's almost become a genre of porn.
What it leads to is an impression that there are hardly any happy marriages left, hardly any women who have not suffered sexual assault, hardly any man who is not a predator and potential rapist.
Caroline Criado Perez does acknowledge that ‘most of the time I navigate the world feeling pretty secure that most of the male half of humanity does not actively despise me simply because I’m female. … These men who hate us, they are surely in a minority’.
But the Dominique Pélicot story has shaken the little faith she had because the men involved seemed so normal to those around them and because there were so many of them.
I don’t know how many men are normal or what normal men are like. I wish I did. We all have our dark sides as well as our light sides.
In an attempt to draw this away from the men vs women problem, the comparison I would like to offer is with Nazi Germany – I assure readers that it’s pure coincidence that Germany pops up again in my illustrations – and Adolf Eichman.
Adolf Eichman seemed so normal that Hannah Arendt coined the phrase, ‘the banality of evil’, in her report on his trial, and there were undoubtedly many in Nazi Germany like him. But neither of these facts means that all Germans in the country were capable of exterminating Jews. Or so it seems to me.
What do you think?
Is every man a predator and potential rapist?
Was every German under the Nazis capable of exterminating Jews?
Is every human being intent on destroying the environment that supports life on Earth?
Does anyone have any reliable data on any of these questions?
That's some interesting cognitive origami you've done there to avoid looking at a straight-forward question: 'How many men?'
Yes, I can look at a straight-forward question: 'How many men?'
Possible answers:
1. Too many men.
2. Impossible to say if it's a majority of men or a minority of men.
CCR wrote: "These men who hate us, they are surely in a minority". Do you know if it is a minority?
What is your answer to the question: 'How many good men are there?' It is not a straight-forward question.
I’ve seen enough cases where people, given pretty much the same information can come to very different conclusions; and to realise that the thinking process is not only the external / objective world but heavily dependent on the inner, subjective world.
It is possible to extend the possible answers:
1. All men
2. A minority of men
3. Too many men
4. Impossible to say if it’s a majority of men or a minority of men.
5. It is possible to go some way to working out if it is a majority or a minority of men.
It is fair enough to have different view points as that is how ideas can be considered.
Women need to look into this for their own protection but from my perspective the important thing is that men look into this and not side-step the basic question by continually widening the frame of reference until everything becomes vague.
Vague and nebulous is not helpful here, the basic and pointed question is good enough (How Many men?) and it would be more useful for men and women to try and work out ways to get some sort of answer for several reasons, including:
• For women it is ultimately a life and death issue (physically)
• For men it is ultimately a life and death issue (physically and philosophically)
• If men and women are to coexist this cannot continue but change depends on looking into it
• If this continues we undermine our own society
I say keep the focus sharp and narrow; examine what is going on right now, don’t widen the frame to include the last 100 years.
Men and women need to really know: What the actual hell is going on with men?
I was told that one of the main porn sites suddenly removed all content that included the tag ‘sleeping’ – so rape and abuse as a business model?
It is not a complicated question but granted getting an answer will need work.
Perhaps a good place to start is looking at who profits from encouraging base animal passions and why are they allowed to continue?
What is important is that this ugly can of worms is spread out on the table and examined closely to try and repair the damage if it is possible. The problem appears wide. For example and as said earlier: Do not ask what is wrong with drag queen story hour; instead, ask why do men wearing caricature woman face want an audience of toddlers?
i.e. what is going on with men?
Dear Caroline,
I know the answer to your question. I know why more men don't talk about this. Because we're guilty too.
I will stand and be counted. And I will talk about it. I talk about it with my wife. My son. My daughter. Anyone who will listen. I'm a normal guy...
Often, normal means guilty.
https://www.theunfilteredscribe.com/p/dearest-gentle-reader?r=kfke9
"Have you never wondered why it is we are not just in armed combat against you? It is not because there is a shortage of kitchen knives in this country. It is because we believe in your humanity, against all the evidence." - Andrea Dworkin, 1980, "I Want A 24 Hour Truce In Which There Is No Rape"
Love this quote.
To Men: If women’s anger keeps building (as it rightly should) men had better wake up soon because the next station for this train is Rage Central and you don’t want to see the station after that… but then again, you won’t need to be worrying about mosquitoes on your testicles (if you still have any).
https://alienresident.substack.com/p/just-be-kind
This is important that these ideas are being exposed. I would never in a million years ever participate in this type of gang rape. It is very odd that this idea should ever be presented but it is eye opening that it has. I had a niece who was gang raped and a very close female friend whom I had a lot of intimate conversations with who had experienced abuse. I will never have ever done this even without having these experiences. I don't want any acknowledgement for having said this as it should, but it doesn't, go without saying. Men need a wake up call. This is a huge topic as it has so many layers and ramifications. One of my friends who is a mother and grandmother teaches all of the male members of her family how to treat girls and women, how to date them, and how to show appreciation for them. I listened to what she had to say and I thought, wow, I wish that I grew up with that information. Men and boys are dumb in a lot of respects and need direction. This does not excuse in any way the abominable way that they act because there is no excuse for it.
From time to time, I have heard the basic line, "About 2 out of every 4 women have been sexually assaulted in their lifetime."
From my own experience with men and watching true crime through the years, I just sense those stats are wrong & underestimate of reality.
Some years back, there was a dark commercial showing women with bruises, looking worn, tired laying on top of old police case files and the commercial said, "There is a serious backlog of cold case rapes that need to get solved. When will that happen?"
I personally don't see many women getting up the courage (or whatever it is that's stopping us) from coming forward and really getting angry, showing up and organizing against the growing problem of misogyny in our society.
I feel like I am alone.
I have to share this recent experience: I make jewelry. I Google ppl that sell the gemstones & findings I need for my hobby. I Googled this subject some few weeks ago and up pops a seller on Etsy.
This seller shows a cheap coffee mug with the misogynistic demeaning message on it, "I'll stop being a cunt once I get my coffee."
Come to find out that Etsy has many other sellers promoting hatred towards females using the "C" word on all kinds of cheap crap from China.
I went on to Etsy, typed "Cunt" into their browser and more sellers and the "c" word products came up. I followed ETSY'S protocol to "report this seller" for breaking their own rules, ETSY's own rules of selling products of "hatred or violence or pornography."
Not one Etsy rep responded! I contacted and complained to Better Business Bureau.
It took a few weeks and the Etsy agent who responded was indifferent to my disgust and basically told me to do what I already did repeatedly. It's as though they never even read my complaint & all the actions I took.
All I requested Etsy owners do is follow their own policies and stop these sellers from profiting off of hatred towards females.
Misogyny is growing because of having one political party in US lead by a rapist, a woman-hater. The men who hate us are coming out from under the rocks.
Like any other minority who has faced hatred from (mostly) white men, women are now the target of their open anger and hatred.
When I read the NYT story I instantly thought of this piece written over 20 years ago by the late radical feminist Andrea Dworkin. She was and is a very controversial figure in Feminism, and I don't know enough of her writing to have a solid opinion about her.
Her story here of being drugged and raped wasn't considered credible by many at the time. It was so... far-fetched. I don't know how it stands currently. When I read it a few months back I thought it sounded very plausible that such a thing could happen.
Technology has come a long since 1999. Yet even then how many instances had we already seen of partners releasing sex videos without consent? Tanya Harding comes to mind.
From what we know happens with child pornography and having seen some chilling Dark Web videos of women being brutalized, I don't find this story far-fetched at all. And for someone who would do such a thing, why not target a radical feminist, notorious for her absolute rejection of pornography and sex work?
It's also possible that the perpetrator wasn't aware of her history. Or that it actually didn't happen. Being plausible doesn't make it true. And we've seen writers who passed off made up stories as actual events.
Yet, I'm sorry to say that I can easily imagine a video depicting the rape of an unconscious radical feminist in a Paris hotel floating around on the Dark Web. Or in the personal collection of a serial rapist or an incel.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2013/03/day-i-was-drugged-and-raped
Dworkin was one of the leading voices of radical feminism before men successfully derailed the Second Wave. Her widower, John Stoltenberg, wrote "Refusing to Be a Man."
"Have you never wondered why it is we are not just in armed combat against you? It is not because there is a shortage of kitchen knives in this country. It is because we believe in your humanity, against all the evidence." - Andrea Dworkin, 1980, "I Want A 24 Hour Truce In Which There Is No Rape"
I can barely take my hand off my mouth to breathe to type to make a sound — all too familiar to be arrested, hijacked — horrific anger explodes each time I hear/read these stories that I went numb to due to my own hospital birth rape by the fuckernutzs in white coats — who take an oath — who promise to do no harm — are they asleep, is it not all men? After reading this I see more truth and it makes me so sick. Since my own tragic hospital rape it felt like an IV drip poured over me day and night to not speak it, sound it, claim it — yet I too have a sonogram of my babies in utero - just fine — they were perfect. But i was too shocked into survival mode to file a suit. That is what trauma does it arrests our voice, our body, our life until we can't hold it in any longer. Thank you for being a clear and sound voice for all of us. I'm fairly new here and know Wendy and Ros, this is a good place to hang out. Thank you, I apprecaite what you are writing more than you can know.
I am so sorry that such a thing happened to you 💔
Hello Michele, Thank you for saying that. "I'm sorry that happened to you, goes a long way" Thank you again. Me too. Another area that still needs to be aired as I know I am one of many. Thank you.
This is interesting to me. I was away and didn't see this story til a couple of days ago. I've not seen anyone tallying about it, only news. It is horrific. I feel I don't want to talk about it because to do so is to lean into imagining how it all must feel and that is unbearable. But I do not share the revelation described in the article. I know so many women who were abused by family members as children, raped, dv, so it was no surprise to me. Perps are regularly described as such nice guys, what a shock. I was well aware these men are everywhere.
I think the call out to men is complicated. Violent and abusive men are a threat to men too. My husband spoke out a lot then one day the dead women list suddenly made him the target of tans rights activists and he was cancelled so has no platform anymore from which to speak. We live like hermits in our bubble. We both spoke out directly to a family now-ex who turned out to be abusive. But I don't think these men engaged in the stuff like in this case are visible to men like my husband, I think they must only disclose to other men who hate women and see us as not human. A split male culture - men who would and men who wouldn't. And I dunno that the wouldn'ts are a majority...
I remember explaining to my very sweet, woke, but large and hairy nephew, the meaning of "all men are potential rapists". The look on his face when the penny dropped! I hope that means he will now always make a point of crossing over the road to avoid walking behind a woman, and generally be more alert.
I also do not like the idea that men somehow can't help themselves - that it is biology etc - as if they are somehow lacking in any capacity. If this is the case - then seriously no male should be left in charge of anything - as they clearly are just one great big hormonal instinctive creatures.#
Why men say nothing - well remember we have be taught that male violence is a women's issue - no it is a male issue - it is criminal. I do hope all the identified men are jailed.
I am coming away - just hurts me to the core....
It is the worst thing - it seems not matter what other identity you have - race, sexuality, disability, faith etc - if you have a vagina - then you are a target in some shape or another. I think this is why misogyny sexism is so pervasive in that it affects every identifiable vagina on the planet.
Resources need to go to educating young men and boys from early days - so women are not having to be responsible grown ups - changing their behaviour - explaining everything - being "understanding" so not to upset all the "good men" out there - and to stop referring to ignorant sexist as "characters" or mavericks. why - I noticed with Huw Edwards debacle - that complaints were not taken seriously at the time when adult women were raising issues. I heard on the Newsagents Jon Sopel say when a female BBC presenter - went public before he was allowed to slip away - that she should have had a quiet word. That made me furious - gaslighting, lets hide this toxic abuse - no.
This story is horrific in that I am not surprised that it did happen.
I really dont know how to change things - I wish -
In the years I have been on this planet and the little reading and seeing that I have done, there has been a noticeable pattern; that women and children seem to get abused as a matter of course and that this seems to have increasingly permeated throughout society from top to bottom.
From the enablers, accomplices, clients and fellow abusers at the so-called top end of society, moving amongst the likes of Savile and Epstein, all the way down to institutions like the police that seem to be home for rapists and other miscreants to the point where a woman (Kellie Jay Keene?) had police knocking on her door to complain that she had used words that denigrated paedophiles… and that is before we even get to ‘the ordinary man in the street’.
Now, I don’t know many people, but the incidence of family sexual abuse and rape by fathers against daughters seems high for the number of folks I know; very disturbingly high in fact.
Can it be that most men, given the chance to rape and pillage would jump at the chance? I do not know but suspect it might be so.
Recently I came across a Sufi mystic writing on the nature of humanity:
“As man begins to see clearly through human life, the world begins to appear as a forest to him, filled with wild animals, fighting, killing and preying upon one another.
“There are four different classes of men who harmonize with each other in accordance with their different states of evolution: angelic, human, animal, and devilish.
“The angelic seeks for heaven, and the human being struggles along in the world; the man with animal propensities revels in his earthly pleasures, while the devilish man is engaged in creating mischief, thereby making a hell for himself and for others. Man after his human evolution becomes angelic, and through his development in animality arrives at the stage of devil.”
For argument’s sake I put some numbers to this idea; lets be kind and say that 1% of men might fall into the angelic human category, 29% struggle along as humans, 50% are basically slaves to their animal passions and 20% are those who embrace their darker side and behave accordingly.
So for example, in any given 100 men we have the following:
• 1 man who would never deliberately abuse
• 29 men who are usually okay but may fall prey to animal passions
• 50 men who, engaged with porn and would fuck a watermelon if they could manage it
• 20 men who would abuse anyone or anything to get what they want.
We have a society (UK) that seems to elevate the sociopathic and psychopathic – the power hungry, greedy, selfish ‘go-getters’ who are the alpha males, but the origin of this problem goes way, way back.
Men have managed to scapegoat women through religion. They have turned projecting the shadow (Jung) into an art form. The misogynists who co-opted and took over managed to blame women for everything (The Fall), and thus were able to justify their passion for abuse through a DARVO lense (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender).
And of course the ‘men of the cloth’ took to all this in all humble piety, whilst being abetted by the handmaiden nuns (e.g. Nuns running orphanages in Ireland).
Is it the fault of religion? No. Humans seem very adept at twisting things and contorting them to justify desires and, given time it seems to extend across everything.
Recent years have seen attacks on women that defy belief and it seems to me like a bunch of very wealthy abusers have been funding an attempt to erase women.
Why aren’t men talking about this? I can think of a number of possible reasons including but not limited to:
• 1 man who is shocked beyond words
• 29 men who feel ashamed and embarrassed
• 50 men who unconsciously recognise their potential shadow, but don’t think about it because the sport is on and they are looking for a watermelon
• 20 men who are checking to make sure they don’t get caught but with every intent to continue
So, where does that leave us? Potentially in a very ugly place.
Women are going to have to do this for themselves because unless something changes, it seems like men are too degraded to stand up. The archetypes of Minerva, Guan Yin, Durga etc etc can be called upon for strength, but waking up enough men to help may or may not be possible short term; perhaps the sight of officially sanctioned male on female abuse at the last Olympics could have been utilized as it indicates the extent of the rot, but it was fascinating to see how they forced deletion of video showing that. In other parts of the world it seems men project their shadow through a level of control freakery rather than addressing their own dark side… just blame the women, control their behaviour and all sorted s/
Also, there is no quick fix, education and institutions have been weaponised against women (e.g. menstruators), and that is without thinking of the ideas of invisible women. Even if the indoctrination and sexualisation of the young was stopped tomorrow, repairing the damage done could take a couple of generations. Do not ask what’s wrong with drag queen story hour, ask why do men wearing caricature woman-face want an audience of toddlers?
The French rape case is displaying the disgusting underbelly of our society, but what about those at the top end, how well they protect their own… why did we not hear more about those associated with Epstein and Savile but are, instead, served up the abomination from France.
Of course there are the Ghislaine Maxwells of the world, but for men who come out with the stale bullshit of ‘not all men’, this male suggests, rather than trying to protect one’s ego: “When you hear or see of people of poor character, look inside and examine yourself [to paraphrase Confucius].
Men need to wake-up, lest women are left with nothing but Artemisia Gentileschi’s Jael and Sisera; which of course the abusers would love because then of course they would have no choice but to punish such brutal behaviour.
Can’t remember exact quote now, but:
“It is only when a mosquito lands on a man’s testicles that he learns to curb his innate tendency to violence”
Thanks for your opinion and you make some valid points. I can't in all honesty say that things are as bleak as you are making them. Men have emotional lives as well and maybe rather than focus on sex, focus on love and relationships. What is also missed is what men do for a living, are they involved in working with women on a regular basis and are they engaged in work where they nurture and support women. Their work can lead to a better understanding and more compassion and caring as they see the rewards in being patient, being understanding, and being kind as part of their work environment. Love is a verb and working on expressing it can create the opportunity for emotional growth and this is what we are trying to achieve. Right thinking can be practiced but I believe that men's listening skills need to be refined. They need to realize that however insightful they think they are, they are not as insightful as a woman. I believe that a man's love is very directional and powerful. It needs to be because that is how men are built and I sense that in myself when I fall in love. Men who risk their lives to save loved ones and to save communities and others utilize this strength. However, because they are built this way, they are not nearly as good at relationships and inter-relationships as women. This is where they fall down in terms of listening and understanding because they need to be taught to recognize their limitations, engage in dialogue, and let women teach them. So many men are stuck in their own world and will reject this step. The linear approach to life allows for quick decisions but not necessarily correct and longterm ones. Men need to work on expressing the aspects of love (patience, kindness, support, and compassion) and they will see the rewards in doing so. This idea is not being taught so men are directionless.
I agree. Men like to see themselves as protectors and providers but they don't seem to realize that women need protection against mostly men. Even men need protection from men ffs. Men get angry at WOMEN for stating the obvious - that we cannot trust men because we don't know which men are predators - instead of getting angry at the MEN who give all men a bad name. It's crazy-making because women just want to be free to raise their children, earn a decent living and support their community.
Porn culture has so distorted young women's perspective of their role in society that they now self-objectify and groom themselves as victims saving predators the trouble. The erasure of women is well underway but I sense that Mother Nature will have the last word. Men will profoundly regret the imposition of patriarchy on our species because it inverts the natural order. Women and children are the centre of any healthy culture. Men reap the rewards in this culture by being loved and respected for honouring and protecting women's life-giving ability to bear and nurture the next generation.
Instead, male humans have devolved and are bringing everyone down with them. Sadly, women's connection with each other has been so damaged and their spirit so demoralized that they now think mutilation of children's bodies in order to 'change sex', as if that's possible, is seen as laudable. It sickens me that mothers have been indoctrinated to such a degree that they go along with this. Such is the result of trauma inflicted on women today.
It confuses me you went from the subject of rape to "sex changes".
One is not the other.
BTW: Please cite one parent, one actual case I can Google, investigate your claim of who forced their child into this "sex change" you refer to because it doesn't happen!
Wow.
Simply by virtue of a child being incapable of comprehending the lifelong, dire implications of sex reassignment, the child cannot consent. Therefore the child is technically being coerced by the parent, doctors, school system. I could give you thousands of examples of detransitioners who felt pressured, pushed, deceived or otherwise compelled into thinking a sex change would fix their underlying mental health issue. There is an agenda being promoted that is driven by massive profit telling our children that changing sex is possible. It is not.
Changing a child's healthy male or female body to SIMULATE the opposite sex is diabolical. Sadly, the many stories of irreversible damage are laid out in a book by that name. I suggest you read it before you reply. It will break your heart. BTW, I have NO issue with adults going through the procedure, as long as they have been fully informed.
I just read up on this and also watched a commercial on FSTV from the transsexual community. They are saying this complaint you make is "a thing," when it isn't. It isn't happening and there are a number of "feminist" woman claiming what you are claiming--that children are forced into changing sex against their will.
That's NOT HAPPENING.
That is a rumor.
No child is going to go through any kind of sex change against their will. No doctor would touch any child that doesn't truly feel this is what they want or need.
You may be innocently believing in this lie. I read that it is dangerous to go around and spread nonsense as it helps to normalize even more prejudice and hatred towards an already vulnerable group.
Transsexuals persons are killed at a much higher rate than any other minority.
You are not helping to stop the increased violence these poor families face having children who IS not feeling normal with their gender.
And it also has nothing to do with the subject of rape.
You connected the two issues as though they are both dangerous and THAT IS DANGEROUS.
A transsexual child won't go through ANY sex change until they are age appropriate and both parents and doctors are allowed willingly by the patient.
Simple as that. No conspiracies and no lies.
Please stop spreading BS.
As for the murder rate, actually trans people are murdered at LESS than the rate of the general population. It's important to note that those who ARE murdered typically work in the sex industry. Here's the article from an independent study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5551594/
Results. The overall homicide rate of transgender individuals was likely to be less than that of cisgender individuals, with 8 of 12 RR estimates below 1.0. However, the homicide rates of young transfeminine Black and Latina residents were almost certainly higher than were those of cisfeminine comparators, with all RR estimates above 1.0 for Blacks and all above 1.0 for Latinas.
The link that must not be missed here is the connection "without consent".
Just google how many men have been caught filming women in changing rooms sharing/swapping images online, to get an understanding of the scale.
It's not simply that they hate us, they think of us as prey.
Do "good" men care about this?
"Prey," is indeed THE word to use. It doesn't help womenkind to know other women working in pornography promoting rape, is helping our sex, either. And there's plenty of rape porno in the world. Watching that alone, it's easy for any male to then assume, "Secretly, THIS is what women really want."
I personally have trouble trusting any man because of my own experiences.
If they gave even a single fuck, they would *do* something about it, and as you can see, they never have. It is safe to assume they never will.
What. Will. It. Take???????
For women to RISE UP and say ENOUGH!!! Enough brutalizing of women and children. Enough gaslighting. Enough shaming and blaming women for men's despicable behaviour.
I recently got together with 2 girlfriends and the boyfriend about starting up weekend healing retreats. Initially, I wanted to hold a retreat for women only, then mixed and men's retreats. Within minutes this man in his 40's started to lecture me about why I should not have a women's only healing retreat. He kept insisting I be more 'inclusive' and that 'empowering women to find their voice' would likely make them become power hungry. I tried to explain that for my first one I felt it was best to focus on women as I can relate better to them and wanted my first experience to be minimal stress.
Anyway, his girlfriend waffled (I think he's abusing her) and couldn't allow herself to agree with me, the second woman initially agreed with him but gradually found her voice. While he petulantly stormed off because he refused to see my point of view, I said to these two women, I guess I would have to do this on my own.
It was surreal to watch as I was hoping to mentor both these women and provide an income which they both desperately need. I called him out on his patronizing behaviour but he continued to dig in his heels. So, I wrapped up the meeting and left.
Then he had the audacity to continue lecturing me by text shortly after. I declined to engage.
Here's the kicker...I had just purchased a small canvas artwork from his girlfriend for $250 to help her financially.
It was a lesson well learned. Do NOT give any man an inch. He will take a mile every time. Disappointed in women, too. The handmaiden indoctrination is holding us back.
Thank you so much for writing this. I agree with every word. I am horrified by what happened and also by the thought that it could be happening in every town everywhere. I also can't stop thinking that there are men reading about this case and only thinking about how they can cover their tracks better and make sure they are not caught like this man was.
Such a good post Caroline.
And yes, what about the men who walked out, have seen differing stories - 3 total or 3 out of 10, ie 30! They weren't willing to rape her, but also weren't willing to go to the police! Or to tell anyone else who could stop it.